Friday, January 08, 2010

Extra repair/mod information concerning the Quad 44

Correction for the 7815 pin layout!!!

In the first series of the 44 (before serial 12.000) the output mute relay was fitted on the tone control board. There is an official Quad mod to decrease the switch off time of the relay: a capacitor of 4u7 (35V minimum) between the +HT rail and the base of Tr501. To prevent switch off noise, always apply this mod. On the tone control board M 12512 iss 8 (somewhere between serial 2401 and 12000) the cap was fitted in the factory.

In some cases the relay will rattle, Quad refers simple to: HT problems. Modern OPA’s draw substantial more current than the very efficient TL071’s. Also they pull more current from the negative supply in respect to the positive supply.

If you look at the relay circuit diagram, it is a critical design. With a total supply voltage of 30V the relay “on” voltage is exact 24V minus the Vce of Tr501. But the voltage is not 30V, there is only 28.8V max at hand.

To cure this, I placed one diode in series with each of the 15V zeners (D400 and D401). The same way Quad builds the 8.2V supply for the Switch board. The next step is reduce R400 and R405 to 5 ohm’s and increase the zener and transistor circuit current by reducing R402 and R403 to 1k5 Ohm’s. In most cases the supply will now deliver enough current to feed the hungry OPA’s and the relay. It is good practice to replace all the zeners (also the 7.5V and the diode D403) by 1,3 Watt versions.

If the rattling still occurs: increase the relay voltage by decreasing R550 to 22k ohm.

The last (final) step to get the relay silent is the following: replace the negative supply by installing a 7915 Voltage regulator. Until now I had to do this once (a time consuming warrantee case for Stefaan).
Remove R402, R404, R405, Tr402, Tr403 and D401. Replace R405 by a wire link; replace Tr402 with a tripod wire link. Place the 7915 in the position of Tr403 with “legs” 2 and 3 (input and output) crossed. Don’t use the metal nut and bolt to fasten the regulator.

Topview 7915

The same kind of operation can be performed to rebuild the positive supply with a 7815 voltage regulator.

Topview 7815

Remove Tr 400, Tr401, R400, R401, R403 and D400. Replace R400 by a wire link; replace Tr401 by a wire tripod. Place the 7815 in the same position as Tr400 on the copper side of the Pcb. With ‘legs’ 2 and 3 (output and ground) crossed. Place the 7815 in an upright position.

Modern 24V relays are functionally compatible, not pin compatible, see the drawing for correct placing. The relay is in an upright position on the component side of the pcb. Use always a relay with high impedance, 1K Ohm or more.

Other useful mods.

In Quad 44’s below serial 23.000 the volume can not be reduced to zero, like in a 34 or 44’s above serial 23.000. Remove R502 and R503, replace R500 and R501 by a wire link, and replace R552 and R553 by 10 k Ohm. In this way the series resistor is reduced, this brings the gain of this stage to the original value.

In the Radio module and the first series of Aux modules two extra resistors are placed in the OPA circuit. R202, 204 and R203, 205. Why they did this? In this way the circuit is unity gain, but the OPA runs at a higher gain. In those days OPA’s weren’t always stable at unity gain. Remove R204 and R205 and replace R202 and R203 by a wire link.
In the Aux module: remove R606, 607 and replace R604, 605 by a wire link.

Joost Plugge


Blogger Ronan said...

I got the same problem relay ratle but on later version, where the relay is on the mother board and the relay is 12volt.

This appears after upgrading my quad 44 with opa604, (I am fully satisfied with the sound) but this append even when all input output card (radio,cd,..) are removed so there is no link with opa.

Any suggestions?

12:07 AM  
Blogger Stefaan said...

Hello Ronan,

First check the voltage on the relay. If it is to low, reduce the value of R408 until the "on" voltage is 12 V DC. If the rattle still occurs: follow the recipi on the blog. Start work on the negative supply, this causes the problem. Did you also upgrade the Psu elco's?

Joost Plugge

11:40 AM  
Blogger Ronan said...

I upgrade just the 5 capacitors on the PSU (2x47, 2x1000, 1x100 mf) according to dada kit.
The problem is coming from the negative supply which sometimes loose tension (about .5 volts). You were right.
It seems OPA604 charge negative supply and damaged it.
Should I just replace power transistors with same reference or there are improvement with other reference ?
I also project installed radiators to TIP31, 32.
Thank's for advices.
Ronan (Paris)

1:06 AM  
Blogger Stefaan said...

Hello Ronan,

I don't think the supply is damaged. Try the advise from the blog, first the extra diode in series with the zener to increase the nagative supply voltage. Then the two resistors. Or install the 7915. This is a better option than replacing the power transsitors.


Joost Plugge

6:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi !
I solved the problem by simply addding a 500 µF/25 Volts capacitor parallel to the relay coil. Best regards,

2:26 PM  
Blogger Ronan said...

After I put the 7915 and 7815 the problem still occurs.
In fact it was the power switch on-off which cause the trouble by sometimes crakling. I detect it with the noise emitted by the switch, the voltage of the transformer go down for a while at same time, that make the relay rattle...
Sometimes problem is not where you think.:)
I hope the 7915 7815 is an improvement anyway.
Thank's for your help anyway.

11:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have returned to all Quad (44 pre-, 606 poweramp, ESL 57s) after many experiments. I like what I have now, but cannot get the volime right. At one click it's too low, at two clicks it's too high. Can you suggest anything that would rectify this, please? Thank you. Derek

6:46 PM  
Blogger Stefaan said...

Hello Derek,

The 606 and 57's are not the best combination, to much power! Quad still have protection kits for the Esl's, otherwise you might ruin the Esl's. The sensitivity of the 606 can be reduced by changing a resistor in each channel. There are special RCA connector's on the market which wil reduce the signal between the 44 and ther 606.

Joost Plugge

10:06 AM  
Blogger Stefaan said...

Hello Derek,

These are trhe attennuaters:

Regards Joost

12:57 PM  
Blogger Rareluis said...

Why not simply remove the relay? After all the Quad 34 can easily do without...

10:49 PM  
Blogger Stefaan said...

Hello Hans,

In the 34 a transistor circuit takes care of the delayed "on" swithing. This can be done for a 44.

Kind regards,

Joost Plugge

11:24 AM  
Blogger ねこねこ said...

Dear Stefaan.
Hi, I read this blog , My44 has rattled relay, serial is 23000〜.
I want to repair but I couldn't undertand
"To cure this, I placed one diode in series with each of the 15V zeners (D400 and D401). "
Can you tell me where I should place the extra diode?
I would appreciate if it you would show me picture or modified schematics.

5:31 AM  
Blogger EJP said...

I had this problem, but it wasn't caused by anything mentioned here. The -ve supply was drooping from -20V to about -16V at the 1000uF capactitor, and the rattle would then start. The eventual fix,after trying a lot of the stuff mentioned here, was to replace the W02 bridge rectifier. Next time I will try that first, as it is a < $1 part.

1:38 AM  
Blogger EJP said...

I solved this by changing the rectifier. I used W04 to get more reliability. It appears that an element of the W02 can drop out under heat, and heat increases with increased current.

The suggestion to increase C406 should not be followed. It doesn't help, and it increases the switch-off time,mwhuch needs to be as fast as possible.

3:41 AM  
Blogger EJP said...

I fixed this by changing the W02 bridge rectifier to a W04. Evidently the W02 overheats and one of the diodes stops conducting, which drops the DC rail voltage enough to let the relay drop-out.

12:40 AM  

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